CFTP | Episode #50 | Theological Discussion | NCT & Baptist Covenant Theology

Join CFTP as we present to you our first Theological Discussion Hangout.  Tonight we contrast NCT with Baptist Covenant Theology (1689 Federalism) and you may be shocked to find out that we aren’t as far apart as one may think – After all we’re Baptists!

Our special guests Dustin Segers (NCT) and Jason Mullet (1689 BCT) of Logical Belief Ministries  join us for a lively discussion on the Law of God, the Abrahamic Covenant, and more.

This is Theological Discussion done right!

 

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Episode #50 Resources:

1689 Federalism website

www.1689federalism.com

What’s new in the revised edition of the Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology?

What’s new in the revised edition of the Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology?

Logical Belief Ministries YouTube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=logical+belief+ministries 

Covenant Theology: From Adam to Christ

https://www.amazon.com/Covenant-Theology-Christ-Nehemiah-Coxe-ebook/dp/B00YCX8I96/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1433216911&sr=1-1&keywords=covenant+theology+from+adam+to+christ

The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology

https://www.amazon.com/Distinctiveness-Baptist-Covenant-Theology/dp/1599253259/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492290252&sr=8-1&keywords=baptist+covenant+theology

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Porch-Con Facebook Page:

https://www.facebook.com/Porch-Con-2017-A-New-Covenant-Theology-Conference-193107494426990/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

NEW DAVID GAY TRACT: Two Questions…

A big thanks to Marv Plementosh of www.onemilliontracts.com

http://shop.onemilliontracts.com/

 

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Blake White Resources:

Blake’s Article ‘What is The Law of Christ?”:

http://ablakew.blogspot.com/2015/06/what-is-law-of-christ.html

Blake’s Books on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B004ROZCXA

Blake’s Blog – Barabbas:

http://ablakew.blogspot.com/

Blake White on GoodReads:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3450080.A_Blake_White?utm_medium=api&utm_source=author_widget

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What is New Covenant Theology?

What is New Covenant Theology? An Introduction  – Blake White

https://www.amazon.com/What-New-Covenant-Theology-Introduction/dp/192896544X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Cross to Crown Ministries: A short Primer on New Covenant Theology, by Blake White

http://crosstocrown.org/article/a-short-primer-on-new-covenant-theology-essentials/

Providence Theological Seminary: What is New Covenant Theology

http://ptstn.org/nct.html

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Striving For Eternity: Theology Discussion/Debate Series:

Covenant Theology vs New Covenant Theology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuuUQ7v1zMw&feature=youtu.be&fb_ref=Default

New Covenant Theology vs Dispensational Theology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89cMw-Edpec

Covenant Theology vs Dispensational Theology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efAzzvVM-Yo

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Steve Atkerson and NTRF

New Testament Reformation Fellowship Website:

http://www.ntrf.org/

NTRF’s NCT Series:

http://ntrf.org/index.php/new-covenant-theology/

NTRF/SteveAtkerson on Sermon Audio:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=ntrf

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David H.J. Gay Resources:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=davidhjgay

David H.J. Gay Archive Website:
All David’s books are now available for FREE in PDF, Mobi, and EPub formats!

www.davidhjgay.com

 

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Contact CFTP:

Facebook:

CFTP Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710049122585165/

NCT Porch Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/574200849397709/

New Covenant Baptist Church: https://www.facebook.com/ncbcnorcal/?fref=ts

Ask The Porch: (916) 399-3878

Email: NCTPorchcast@Gmail.com

YouTube Channel:

New Covenant Baptist Church: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgx_0oUu3EELtdTET6rNBPQ

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Dem Interwebs:

New Covenant Baptist Church: http://www.ncbcnorcal.com/

Sermon Audio: http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=ncbcnorcal

 

4 Comments
  1. Greg 8 months ago

    Hi guys. This show was just what I was looking for. I’m the one Jason mentioned who gave him Charles Leiter’s book “The Law of Christ”. Ever since hearing Jason give a critique of NCT last year, I’ve wanted to hear him have this kind of discussion and hash things out. All of you did such a great job in being civil, respectful, and acting like brothers in Christ. I learned a lot from it.

  2. Paul Kaiser 8 months ago

    Glad you enjoyed it Greg!

  3. Brandon Adams 8 months ago

    Thank you for the discussion, gentlemen. Jason gave a disclaimer that he hasn’t necessarily studied all the details of 1689 Federalism. With that in mind, I’d like to clarify a very important point.

    1689 Federalism agrees with Dustin that the entire Old Covenant, as a unit, was abrogated. On this point, we disagree with Westminster covenant theology. Note Richard Barcellos:

    “Hearty agreement must be given when New Covenant theologians argue for the abolition of the Old Covenant. This is clearly the teaching of the Old and New Testaments (see Jeremiah 31:31-32; Second Corinthians 3; Galatians 3, 4; Ephesians 2:14-15; Hebrews 8-10). The whole law of Moses, as it functioned under the Old Covenant, has been abolished, including the Ten Commandments. Not one jot or tittle of the law of Moses functions as Old Covenant law anymore and to act as if it does constitutes redemptive-historical retreat and neo-Judaizing. However, to acknowledge that the law of Moses no longer functions as Old Covenant law is not to accept that it no longer functions; it simply no longer functions as Old Covenant law. This can be seen by the fact that the New Testament teaches both the abrogation of the law of the Old Covenant and its abiding moral validity under the New Covenant.”
    -In Defense of the Decalogue, 61.

    For more on this, see:
    http://www.1689federalism.com/1689-federalism-theonomy/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmviRWrqmJM
    https://contrast2.wordpress.com/2015/07/24/response-to-wellums-progressive-covenantalism-and-the-doing-of-ethics/
    Note the chart here acknowledging this point: http://nct-blog.ptstn.org/wp-content/uploads/NCT-Compared-1689-v.1.3.pdf

    It seems that Dustin is also unfamiliar with 1689 Federalism distinctives. He said there are only two possible approaches to law in the NT: either all Old Covenant commands are binding unless explicitly repealed, or all Old Covenant commands are abrogated unless explicitly repeated in the New. Neither approach is held by 1689 Federalism, which argues that all Old Covenant law was abrogated with the Old Covenant, however, when the Old Covenant was abrogated, what remained was a transcovenantal law that pre-dated the Old Covenant. We call this the moral law, while you call it absolute law. But the basic concept we agree on. The question then is how do we know which Old Covenant commands overlapped with absolute law? You say “Those that are repeated by the Apostles in the New Covenant.” We say, “No, that’s not something that the Apostles say” (a point Justin brought out well). We believe that the Apostle’s hermeneutic should be our hermeneutic. Obviously the Apostles did not determine which laws were absolute by looking at what was repeated in the NT. They had to have a method of reading the Old Testament and determining which ones still applied (which ones were absolute law). Whatever their method was is our method as well. Their method was not “whatever is repeated” and neither is ours. We believe that the Apostles avoided being arbitrary by carefully studying the Old Testament and recognizing that some laws were distinguished from other laws from the beginning. Some laws were written in stone by the finger of God (Ex 24:12; 32:16; 34:1, 28) and spoken by God (Ex 20:1), and the rest of the laws written by (Ex 24:4;34:27) and spoken by (Ex 21:1; 24:3) Moses. Only the 10 Commandments/tablets of stone were placed in the ark of the covenant (Ex 25:16; 40:20; Deut 10:1-6; 1 Kings 8:9; Heb 9:4). We believe this was the hermeneutical tool or filter that the Apostles used to determine which Old Covenant laws were absolute.

  4. […] Conversations From the Porch Episode #50 is a discussion between a proponent of NCT (Dustin Segers) and a proponent of the 2nd London Baptist Confession (Jason Mullet). For those interested, the conversation is worth listening. It shows have far NCT has come (at least this version of it). Segers argues for an unchanging absolute law that transcends the Old Covenant but also overlaps with many Old Covenant commands. The Old Covenant as a unit was abrogated, but absolute law continues. I offered the following comments on the web page. […]

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