Previously I addressed Tim Kellers recent endorsement of the “Gay & Christian” movement – HERE
I followed up on that post – HERE as there were some very important facts that needed to be established.
Now in this blog post I present to you further evidence of Tim Keller’s misrepresentation of God’s truth. The engagement is a few years old but we will be wise to remember what Keller said in this interview. It took place on “The Veritas Form” and was published on Youtube on November 29th 2011.
Keller misrepresents God’s truth and withholds it from all who are present by assuring them that unregenerate, unrepentant sinners (in this case homosexuals) are not condemned by their sin:
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
Equally as troubling is his complete rebuke of Christians who believe, and pastors who teach the biblical truth. It is imperative at this point to take note of how Keller defines “Bible-believing Christians” in this discussion to a largely secular audience:
“And that’s the reason why pharisaism, moralism, Bible-believing people who are proud and think God is going to take people to heaven because they’re good”…….
“Bible believing people” Keller tells us, are proud moralists who think they are earning their way. Keller pushes the widely popular, secular view that historical Christianity is oppressive and obedient Christians are self-righteous moralists; you will find this view in nearly all of his books and speeches, as he tirelessly works to cast the “Bible believers” in pursuit of holiness as legalistic pharisees.
The same grace that saves us also equips us to walk in obedience (Phil 2:12-13)- Keller seems to have no concept of this, or of becoming a new creature in Christ (2 Cor 5:17), as he persistently and consistently rejects the pursuit of holiness and Christ-like obedience that are a direct result of regeneration (1 John 5:18). Keller makes an obvious attempt to evade the questions, always quick to point out that “the scripture is much harder on greed than homosexuality.”
He tells us that “homosexuality isn’t God’s original design” and that “the Bible has some reservations about it”. There are no passages of scripture that support the idea that homosexuality isn’t “the ideal” or that God simply has some “reservations” about it; homosexuality is condemned and repeatedly declared an unnatural abomination against the one Holy God.
This is deeply troubling rhetoric from a professing pastor. Even David Eisenbach (an atheist) knows better and repeatedly reminds Keller of exactly what the Bible clearly proclaims regarding homosexual behavior at which point Keller must respond and his answers are void of any biblical truth, as we review below what Keller tells us from the interview:
Keller cautions us that “it is very misleading to say homosexuality is a sin”, immediately contradicting that statement by saying “of course it’s a sin” ??
He tells us that as a Christian “he has to take some responsibility for the oppression of gays.” *Note that for liberal progressives any condemnation of homosexual behavior is oppression.
He tells us that we are commanded to love our neighbor and that he “sees many churches ignoring the biblical teaching on homosexuality in order to do that.” So the only way to really show love here is to ignore the biblical teaching??
He tells us that “homosexuality absolutely does not send anyone to hell.” *Note that unrepentant homosexuality is the topic of this discussion.
He cleverly portrays bible believers who oppose sinfulness (in this case homosexuality) as moralists who “disdain homosexuals”.
When the interviewer asked again if homosexuality is a sin Keller responds “what do you mean by sin?… the answer is yes”… ? To which Eisenbach responds: “Yes?” to which Keller responds: “Now see, here’s the problem with that”….. ?????????
“Christianity has an account of what we think”……
“So, we would say”……
“and we would say”……
“we want people to”……
“You know…ummm…everybody’s gotta be a particular kind of Christian and there’s differences of opinion within Christianity about this”……
Time Out…..Thus saith the Lord! That is what Eisenbach is patiently waiting for Dr. Tim Keller to proclaim…Thus Saith the Lord! Never happens. And for the record, there are no “differences of opinion” within the true church of Christ regarding homosexual relations.
Below is the excerpt from the written transcript of David Eisenbach interviewing Tim Keller at the Veritas Forum, Columbia University:
EISENBACH: ……I wrote a book about the gay rights movement because I was appalled by the oppression and the discrimination against homosexuals in my America [KELLER: uhhmm..]. And this questioner asks, ‘What do so many of the churches have against homosexuals? And what about your church’s approach to homosexuality, is it a sin? Are they going to Hell?
KELLER: uhhh…let’s talk about my church first which will be a little easier than trying to answer for all the other churches of the world….but I’ll try [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER]. I’m representing all the churches of the world alright, you know? [EISENBACH: but Christianity I mean….you, you…] Yeah, I know but let’s start with mine….
EISENBACH:…. You go to the Bible quite often and there are many evangelicals who would say it is listed as a sin in the Bible [KELLER: sin in the Bible, right.]…and these people are going to Hell.
KELLER: Right. Now…What you..first…ughhhh…Let’s talk about my church again [nervous laughter]. Let’s go back here. What we would say is…I think it’s unavoidable. I think most Protestant and Catholic and Orthodox Christians over the years have said, you read the Bible and the Bible has reservations. The Bible says homosexuality is not God’s original design for sexuality. Ok? There we are…you have it. The Bible also says, ‘Love your neighbor’. The Bible…in fact, The Good Samaritan parable which is how Jesus tells us to love our neighbor…you put a Jew and a Samaritan there. So, what Jesus is trying to say is everybody is your neighbor. Gay people are your neighbors. Uhhh…people who are of other faiths are your neighbors. People of other….. other…uhhhh….uhhh…races are your neighbors. And it’s the job of a Christian to do what Jesus did on the cross which was to give himself for people who were opposing Him and people who were diff….believe….didn’t believe in Him even. And so, a Christian is supposed to say, ‘I serve the needs and interests of all of my neighbors in the city, whether gay or straight, whether Hindu or Muslim. I mean Hindus, for example, don’t believe in the Trinity. It’s a different view than what the Bible says. Gay people have a different view of sexuality than generally what you see in the NT. I’m supposed to love my neighbors. So, what I don’t see is…at this point, I see some churches that are…basically, ignoring the places in the Bible that talk about homosexuality in order to love their gay neighbor. And I see other Christian churches taking very seriously what the Bible says about homosexuality but in a very self-righteous way. So, they actually do single out gay people. I mean, there are a number of conservative churches that will love their Hindu neighbors and will love their Muslim neighbors, and not their gay neighbors. And I really don’t think there is any excuse for that. So…that’s what [EISENBACH: Is…is] I mean, I…I….Therefore, I have to take some responsibility for being a member of the Christian Church for the oppression of homosexuals.
EISENBACH: Are committing homosexual acts sin….against God?
KELLER: uhhhh….What do you mean by ‘sin’? The answer is ‘yes’.
KELLER: Now see. Here’s the problem with that. You don’t go to Hell for being a homosexual…..
EISENBACH: …..but committing homosexual acts will get you to go to Hell?
KELLER: Noooo. Wait a minute. Wait, wait [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER].
EISENBACH: well, you know. Some people say, ‘Well, it’s not the homosexuality or being gay. It’s being/doing gay stuff that’s the problem’.
KELLER: No, no. First of all, heterosexuality does not get you to heaven. I happen to know this [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER/CLAPPING]. So, how in the world could homosexuality send you to Hell? And actually…uhhh…The Bible…Listen…..This is…this is true. Jesus talks about greed 10x more than he talks about adultery, for example. Now, one of the problems Christians have here is partly…let’s be nice to Christians. You know when you’re committing adultery. I mean you don’t say, ‘Ohhh, you’re not my wife’ [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER]. I mean you know when you are committing adultery. But, almost nobody knows when they’re greedy. Nobody admits…thinks they’re greedy. You know cause everybody is comparing yourself to other people and so, it’s a frog in the kettle kind of thing. Ahhh….however, the fact of the matter is…the Bible is much harder on greed/materialism. It’s a horrible sin, terrible sin. Will greed send you to Hell? No! What sends you to Hell is self-righteousness – thinking that you can be your own savior and lord. What sends you to heaven is getting a connection with Christ because you realize you’re a sinner and you need intervention from outside. That’s why it is very misleading actually to say, even to say, ‘Homosexuality is a sin’ because most people…Yes, of course homosexuality is a sin because greed is a sin, because all kinds of things are sins. But what most Christians mean when they say that and certainly what non-Christians think they hear when they hear that is ‘If you’re gay, you are going to Hell for being gay’. It’s just not true. Absolutely not true.
EISENBACH: So then, what’s….then how is homosexuality a ‘sin’. I’m not….
KELLER: ….Well, homo…[sigh]..Greed is a sin. In other words, it doesn’t help human flourishing. Basically, Christianity has an account of what we think human beings were built to do and what will therefore, help human flourishing. So, we would say if you spend all of your money on yourself, that’s bad….not only for your own soul, but for everybody elses. We would say homosexuality is not the original design for sexuality. Therefore, it’s not good for human flourishing. We want people to do things that are good for human flourishing. But that’s not what sends you to heaven or Hell. Now, there…maybe we ought to talk about that [NERVOUS LAUGHTER]. What sends you to heaven or Hell really has to do with your faith in the Gospel which is that you can’t….uhhh…be your own savior through your performance and your good works. Now here, I’m coming at this like a protestant now. You know…ummm…everybody’s gotta be a particular kind of Christian and there’s differences of opinion within Christianity about this. But uhhhh…no. being gay doesn’t send you to hell and sin doesn’t send you to Hell like that. The sin underneath the sin is, ‘I am my own savior and my lord’. And that’s the reason why pharisaism, moralism, Bible-believing people who are proud and think God is going to take people to heaven because they’re good…that’s sending them to Hell. I mean, I know that this is a lot to take in at once.
EISENBACH: It’s a lot.
KELLER: I’m…well…yeah…I mean…[EISENBACH: I want to go back to……]but inside our church…[EISENBACH: right.] There’s just not going to be this disdain of homosexuals [EISENBACH: right.] There just can’t be…not when I’m teaching the gospel like that.
Watch the video:
Keller repeatedly makes head-scratching comments such as “let’s be nice to Christians here” and “I’m coming at it like a protestant now”…?? The third and final time Eisenbach attempts to get a straight answer from Keller on whether or not homosexuality is a sin the frazzled pastor responds: “uuuuh, homo…(sigh), greed is a sin!”
I will rely on a voice from the past to put this in the proper perspective:
“I know of no surer way of a people’s perishing than by being led by one who does not speak out straight, and honestly denounce sin. If the minister halts between two opinions, do you wonder that the congregation is undecided? If the preacher trims and twists to please all parties, can you expect his people to be honest? If I wink at your inconsistencies will you not soon be hardened in them? A cowardly preacher suits hardened sinners. Those who are afraid to rebuke sin, or to probe the conscience, will have much to answer for. May God save you from being led into the ditch by a blind guide. “ Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)
Written by Toni Brown – Check her website out – HERE
Check Out Everything Bible Thumping Wingnut – HERE
Support BTWN – HERE
Follow BTWN on Twitter – HERE
Like Our Facebook Page – HERE