LBM Podcast 0058 | RC Sproul Jr., Free Will and Limited Atonement

In this episode the intention was that Jason and Michael Yiannett discuss two topics, Free Will and Limited Atonement. Michael did not arrive in the hangout so Jason proceeded with a show and discussed the recent news about RC Sproul Jr. and then went into his talking points that were prepared for the debate on the topic of Free Will and Limited Atonement.

 

Video Podcast:

14 Comments
  1. Bruce 3 years ago

    I didn’t think I was challenging you. I guess it turned out that way after a while, but all I wanted to know was how a person, given limited atonement, would know whether Christ died for him. I think I asked it this way: How would I know Christ died for me? You assumed I was talking about some sort of synergism, or I don’t know what all, but it was just a question. It seems to me that it would be the first question that would come to mind to mind, given what you were saying about the atonement. I have a point of view, but I was not referencing it at all in the exchange that followed the video. I kept trying to come back to the question, before getting carried away a little.

  2. Bruce 3 years ago

    I would consider having a conversation about the topic.

    • Author
      Jason Mullett 3 years ago

      Which topic, there were two? Also sorry I don’t remember who you are. I have so many people challenging me all the time it is hard to keep track. Have we had a previous conversation?

      Ok just saw the thread. Sure I will chat with you, which topic?

  3. Bruce 3 years ago

    I expect that if we do talk, you will have a direct answer to the initial question?

  4. Bruce 3 years ago

    I’ll have to think about that.

  5. Bruce 3 years ago

    No, that would be your position. You have to look within for evidence that Christ has died for you because you deny that scripture informs you whether he did or not. Therefore, you exercise your totally depraved reason to ascertain whether you feel as though Christ died for you, which I’m saying is synergistic and a reliance on free will. You don’t know what I believe because I have said nothing about it (yet). All I did was ask you how I (or you) would know from scripture that Christ died for me. You jumped to some conclusion of what I believed because you cannot find objective evidence in scripture that Christ died for you. It’s an avoidance technique. When you can’t answer, charge the other guy with something. But that’s the upshot of your theology. It leads in one of two directions: pride or despair. It does not lead to faith, because there is no biblical basis for faith given.

  6. Bruce 3 years ago

    Thank you for avoiding the question for the second time. It must be quite uncomfortable for you. Sola scriptura Christians like me require objective scripture as a basis for faith. If scripture does not say Christ died for you, you cannot know he did. In all your talk, you speak only in the third person, and above present only subjective evidence subject to your own interpretation. That’s a cloaking mechanism for your real view: free will.

    I have asked this question of those of your view before and gotten the same non answers. I wasn’t surprised. Thanks for trying.

    • Author
      Jason Mullett 3 years ago

      I am very comfortable leaving what I have said. Your rejection of the answer is neither rational nor Biblical. I have provided plenty of Scripture and exegesis. You have yet to answer my question. Why does believing that Christ atoned for you with a sacrifice that does not perfect you give you more confidence that you are saved than the Biblical position that the work of Christ was perfect and perfected those for whom it was made (Heb 10:14)? The only answer can be found in you. You must believe that you are righteous enough to remain saved and your confidence rests not in what Christ has done for you but in what you have done for yourself.

  7. Bruce 3 years ago

    I took your suggestion and listened to your podcast on atonement. That is 1:12.10 of my life that I will not get back. Nowhere in it did you address the question I asked. You could have had mercy on me and saved me all that time by answering in a sentence or two. I’ll reiterate my point with more clarity and ask again.

    Since it is impossible to probe the hidden will of God, uncertainty is placed upon us if Christ died for some and not others. Confidence in the promise of the gospel is lost. So, allow me to ask again: Given limited atonement, how would I discern whether Jesus died for me?

    • Author
      Jason Mullett 3 years ago

      I already answered your question before. Rom 8:16 says His Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the Children of God. Rom 10:11 says that all who trust in Him will never be put to shame or disgrace. I believe these passages, Jesus Christ died for me and perfectly saved me and will raise me on the last day (John 6:44). By believing in a universal atonement you invalidate the work of Christ as actually being efficacious to save anyone at all because all that Christ died for are not actually saved. Your response was more born out of emotion than any Biblical exegesis of which your provided none. Answer me this, why does believing that Christ atoned for you with a sacrifice that does not perfect you give you more confidence that you are saved than the Biblical position that the work of Christ was perfect and perfected those for whom it was made (Heb 10:14)? The only answer can be found in you. You must believe that you are righteous enough to remain saved and your confidence rests not in what Christ has done for you but in what you have done for yourself.

  8. Bruce 3 years ago

    I can see by your response that I touched a sore spot. My question said nothing about indiscriminate gospel sharing; it raised no question about election. I asked very simply how I am to know Christ died for me. Your response seems to be that I’ll just innately know. If that is not correct, perhaps you can explain how the ‘spirit’ will testify to me that Christ died for me (or not).

  9. Bruce 3 years ago

    Since your view seems to be that Christ did not atone for everyone, I was surprised that you didn’t spend any time explaining how a person could come to know Christ died for him or her. Wouldn’t that be the obvious question: Did Christ die for me? Seems to me that if Christ died for some and not others, it is indiscernible in this life whether he died for any one of us. Doesn’t this idea then sow doubt and not faith in what Christ did?

    • Author
      Jason Mullett 3 years ago

      Your question starts with assuming we know who the elect are therefore we cannot indiscriminately share the Gospel, then it goes on to assume that we cannot know if we are the elect. First, as a Calvinist I do not know who the elect of God are so I share the Gospel with all and pray that God grants repentance. As Spurgeon said if God put a yellow stripe on the back of all the elect then it would be easier as all we would have to do is preach to the elect, however as God has not done that we preach to all. Where in the New Testament did the Apostles share the Gospel as Christ died for you? That is a modern development that flows out of bad theology. The Apostolic call was to repent and believe in Him. We can personally know that we are the elect and that Christ died for us. Rom 8:16 says His Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the Children of God. Rom 10:11 says that all who trust in Him will never be put to shame or disgrace. I believe these passages, Jesus Christ died for me and perfectly saved me and will raise me on the last day (John 6:44). By believing in a universal atonement you invalidate the work of Christ as actually being efficacious to save anyone at all because all then that Christ died for are not actually saved. Your response was more born out of emotion than any Biblical exegesis of which your provided none. I have an episode on Limited Atonement that I suggest you listen to. (LBM Podcast 0015 – http://logicalbelief.org/2015/10/31/lbm-podcast-0015-doctrines-of-grace-calvinism-limited-atonement/).

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